$txt['youtube'] = 'YouTube'; $txt['youtube_invalid'] = '#Invalid YouTube Link#'; Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape

Author Topic: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape  (Read 8562 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rottweilerman

  • Mokai Addict Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Newbury Park, California
  • Cool Points: 22
  • Engine: EX21, With EX17 Head
  • Model Year: Sold my 2015
Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« on: August 26, 2015, 12:41:29 PM »
Tom,  This message is basically for you,  yesterday I was out for about 5 hours.  During that time I only shut the motor off for about 15 minutes. 
Full throttle operation for maybe 2 hours at most, the rest of the time at idle while I was fishing.

As aside note, since I put the Amsoil in the motor I noticed the idle would run around 1850 to 1900 rpms which I like because it allows me continually move at 1 mph while I'm fishing along the bank with occasional  steering correction.

During the 5 hours there was a brief rain spell, but nothing to accumulate what I found in the motor module when I returned to the dock. >:(  About maybe 1 1/2 cups+.

I have around 17 1/2  hours on the motor, have greased the hull bearing once.   Is this a normal occurrence with bearing leakage after the honeymoon receipt of a new boat is over :D.

Does your hull bearing modification stop this leakage or minimize at best? \./8

John 

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5755
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 59
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2015, 01:42:51 PM »
You should grease the hull bearing every 5 hours, 17 is way too long unless you spend most of that time at slow speeds less than 1/2 throttle or so. Take a picture of the hull bearing with the engine out but the pump installed. How do you know the hull bearing is leaking? And no, it should not leak at all.
Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com

Offline Rottweilerman

  • Mokai Addict Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Newbury Park, California
  • Cool Points: 22
  • Engine: EX21, With EX17 Head
  • Model Year: Sold my 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2015, 02:28:13 PM »
I did grease the bearing after about 6 hours.   I don't actually know if the bearing is leaking, I just don't think the little amount of rain (sprinkles) could have accumulated to that amount of water in the hull! ::)

Also would the shaft misalignment cause additional strain on the bearing/seal that eventually lead to it leaking?  ???

I will get you a picture.

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5755
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 59
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2015, 02:54:22 PM »
The bearing in the old models was never an issue when it came to leaks, they used the same bearing, seals, and housing on the ES-Kape. They just molded the housing into the hull so it's not riding in a rubber hose anymore. This would put more strain on the assembly if the shafts were not lined up properly, and it wouldn't surprise me if that would cause problems with the new rigid mounted bearing design. You could put the boat in the water and watch where the shaft comes through, through the exhaust port in the hull.
Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com

Offline Rottweilerman

  • Mokai Addict Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Newbury Park, California
  • Cool Points: 22
  • Engine: EX21, With EX17 Head
  • Model Year: Sold my 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 12:30:46 AM »
Tom, I took several pictures form the inside of the module and as well as thru the pump well.
I hope you can determine from the close observation of the grease on the bearing as to whether there is water contamination. 

Below the shaft as you can see, there is some kinda of poop, looks like a grease blob.   I did not disturb the grease on the bearing so you could see the condition after I pulled the pump shaft out.

As far as a leak test, I suppose I could take the motor and fuel cell out, fill the bathtub, and dunk the back of the module above the pump shaft to see if water leaks into the module. ::)

Anyway, take a look at the pictures and give your analysis.

Do you offer an aftermarket bearing/seal assembly that is better than stock?

John  Have a few more pictures
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 12:34:17 AM by Rottweilerman »

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5755
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 59
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2015, 12:40:39 AM »
To check for leaks you would really want the boat in the water with the motor installed so the weight would create the same pressure. Grease getting pushed out of the bearing isn't unusual, but your grease looks grey like it's turned milkshake, so it could be leaking. I would clean the grease off the seals as best you can and take some more pictures so I can see the integrity of the seals. The bearing housing is permanently part of the hull, the only thing I make is an extension housing that replaces the forward seal and allows you to grease the bearing remotely, the bearing and rear seal would stay.

Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com

Offline Rottweilerman

  • Mokai Addict Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Newbury Park, California
  • Cool Points: 22
  • Engine: EX21, With EX17 Head
  • Model Year: Sold my 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2015, 12:46:45 AM »
When I look at the bearing, and the keeper snap ring, isn't the bearing and seals replaceable?

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5755
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 59
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2015, 12:54:19 AM »
Yes, the bearing and seals come out and can be replaced. But if they wore out already, there is something seriously wrong to have caused that, and replacing parts isn't going to fix what caused them to fail. But, it hasn't been determined there was a failure yet so clean things up and go put it in the water for some observation.
Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com

Offline Rottweilerman

  • Mokai Addict Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Newbury Park, California
  • Cool Points: 22
  • Engine: EX21, With EX17 Head
  • Model Year: Sold my 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2015, 01:14:17 AM »
I will try to clean up tomorrow and take some pictures.  The only reason why I asked "is the assembly replaceable", is your comment about the extension, I interpreted as I'm stuck with what I got whether it leaks or not.   No harm, no foul. :)

Once I clean it up, take pictures for you to look at, should I apply grease before putting into water as well as do I actually take a power applied run.  ???

I have not put o-rings yet in the area's you suggested, is there a particular size o-ring to use?

I can only imagine what some of the new ES-Kape owners are thinking when they read about some of these issues. :-[

"What would we do without Tom" >:(

Hey, get some sleep :D

John

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5755
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 59
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2015, 09:27:30 AM »
Well, if the bearing assembly being molded into the hull with no flex allowed is causing a problem, then in that respect.... yes, you would be stuck with it. If isn't a problem, and you just want a simpler way to grease the bearing remotely, then I can provide the solution.

Once you've cleaned it up and taken your pictures, grease it back up and do your testing. Yes, run it, and periodically get out and inspect the area for signs of water coming in around the shaft.

As far as o-rings go, I don't know what size you would need. We don't even know if you need them yet. You need to pull your muffler off, and install the motor with nothing on the crankshaft so you can see how the shafts line up. Then you will know if anything needs to be addressed with shimming the mounting pegs.

Glad I'm able to help.  \./8
Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com

Offline Rottweilerman

  • Mokai Addict Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Newbury Park, California
  • Cool Points: 22
  • Engine: EX21, With EX17 Head
  • Model Year: Sold my 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2015, 11:52:46 PM »
I cleaned up the bearings.  I didn't see any signs of damage to the lips on the seals and the springs are still in place.   Take a look at the pictures.

I greased it up and hope to get out next week for a run to see what happens.  I guess it's possible the brief rain I was in could have contributed to the water accumulation.    The next trip will tell the truth.

As far as the shaft alignment, I showed you the pictures a couple of weeks ago and your comment was "put an 0 ring on the pins on the side of the motor where the carburetor is located".

John 

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5755
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 59
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2015, 12:37:37 AM »
Right, memory isn't cooperating 100% these days. Pick up an o-ring assortment from your local autoparts store, use what works best. One on each post is all that will likely fit, but it will move things much closer than what they are now.

Bearing/seal assembly looks fine, I would blame it on the rain... unless something else is leaking, however unlikely.
Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com

Offline Rottweilerman

  • Mokai Addict Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Newbury Park, California
  • Cool Points: 22
  • Engine: EX21, With EX17 Head
  • Model Year: Sold my 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2015, 11:45:09 AM »
The only thing leaking is me, but I'm in another compartment :)).

Thanks,   Will advise on the run results.

John

Offline Heavynets

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Location: Indianapolis area
  • Cool Points: 5
  • Engine: EX-21
  • Model Year: 2010
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2015, 07:58:55 PM »
I don't have an ES-Kape, but I found some leaks in my 2010 that might help you.  The first one is a little hard to describe.  The wear-ring housing bolts to a similar shaped aluminum piece that is molded into the plastic hull.  The leak was between the plastic hull and this molded in piece. 

The other leak really amazed me for I thought it would be impossible.  It was from the brass threaded inserts that hold the intake grate to the bottom of the hull.  These inserts are also molded into the hull.  I'm not sure if the actual leakage is from around the O.D. of the insert or through the threaded portion.  I think it's from around the O.D.

I found these by filling the inside of the hull with a garden hose while the hull was leaning at a steep angle so the water accumulated to the stern.  Because of the electronics in your, this process may not be wise for your ES-Kape.  I have slowed both of these leaks, but they still need some work.  I think J-B Weld may be my next attempt.

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5755
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 59
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: Water leakage into motor motor module, New ES-Kape
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2015, 08:07:28 PM »
I don't have an ES-Kape, but I found some leaks in my 2010 that might help you.  The first one is a little hard to describe.  The wear-ring housing bolts to a similar shaped aluminum piece that is molded into the plastic hull.  The leak was between the plastic hull and this molded in piece. 

The other leak really amazed me for I thought it would be impossible.  It was from the brass threaded inserts that hold the intake grate to the bottom of the hull.  These inserts are also molded into the hull.  I'm not sure if the actual leakage is from around the O.D. of the insert or through the threaded portion.  I think it's from around the O.D.

I found these by filling the inside of the hull with a garden hose while the hull was leaning at a steep angle so the water accumulated to the stern.  Because of the electronics in your, this process may not be wise for your ES-Kape.  I have slowed both of these leaks, but they still need some work.  I think J-B Weld may be my next attempt.

The leaks you describe indicate you have cracks, might want to look a little harder on the inside to find them and attempt repair.
Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com