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Offline Don Ordes

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2005 pump shaft won't turn
« on: August 17, 2012, 01:29:45 PM »
Hi, this is Don, a new member.  I have a 2005 Mokai that's been sitting up for a long while (housed).  I used it in Florida, but have other boats to use up here in Wyoming.  I now see many new accessories for it, such as the clutch, so I am going to start retro-fitting it to use it up here.  I went out to check the shaft and it has a blue collar covering the shaft end with 2 clamps.  The shaft will not turn, probably because of the time laid up.  I serviced and fogged the engine, but have not restarted it yet.
Does your clutch fit the 2005 setup, and does it replace the collet and Spline cover supplied?  I am mechanically inclined, but have never actually been into anything on the Mokai. It worked fine and I left it alone since there were no mods for it at the time I bought and used it.



Offline Painlesstom

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 03:04:06 PM »
Hi Don, welcome to the site.

My clutch will fit your 2005 with no problem, your hex shaft will work just fine. Just order the clutch for the hex shaft and let me know which socket fits your shaft best, 5/8, 16mm or neither. I have seen 3 different variations of that style.

Remove the clamp on the outside of the hull that holds the pump to the housing, remove the pump, and see if you can spin it then. If not, then you will require a rebuild as it is probably full of water and possibly rusted stuck. There might just be some grit / debris between the impeller and wear ring which will feel like the pump is stuck. There is no reason to do anything to the blue rubber hose with the two clamps on it, that is the hull support bearing and two seals, haven't seen one with problems yet.

Look forward to hearing from you.  :)
Tom

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Offline Don Ordes

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 03:41:36 PM »
Thanks, Tom.  I'll check the pump out this evening and let you know what I find.  Can you rebuild the pump if that is needed?
I'm also interested in that console I see in the movies, the windscreen, and an intake screen to stop debris and leaves from clogging the intake.  I would also like to be able to get better performance out of the Honda.  Looking forward to learning about these things.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 04:36:18 PM »
No problem Don, I can rebuild the pump if needed. I make some design changes and fill the housing with oil to better lubricate and cool the bearings.

Wilderness systems makes the console, the windshield can be from a sno-mobile or lexan. My clutch will help avoid intake grate clogging by giving the ability to go to neutral and coast over debris.

Does it still have the stock Honda GC190 motor?
Tom

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Offline Don Ordes

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2012, 01:52:48 PM »
Tom,
I pulled the pump and the shaft is frozen up- probably saltwater corrosion that I didn't wash out enough.  I think I ran the pump with fresh water flush, but that was so long ago I can remember.  I pulled the steering port and the 3 bearing housing allen screws, but nothing comes apart beyond that.  I soaked the gap behind the blades with WD40, but I feel that won't be enough, unless it just helps me to disassemble it.  It would probably be better to have you rebuild it and fit a clutch to it and do your other things to it that you mentioned.  I have a website for my flyfishing business, so my email is out there.  It's ffc@tribcsp dotcom.  Please email me to coordinate me shipping the pump to you and payments.
Some other questions.  I noticed you have an electric start. Is that something that can be added to the Honda.  It's a box-stock whatever they were sending out in 2005.  Also, can the bilge pump be added to mine?
I have high-altitude jets for it, but I never put them in since I was only going to use it in the south.
This has been very helpful to me.  I'm getting enthused about using it up here now. 
I am also interested in engine modifications to get a little more oomph out of it.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2012, 05:01:22 PM »
Email sent, Don.  ;)

Just make sure you don't forget to send the cone and three screws with the pump. It sounds like the bearings balls are rusted to their races, nothing you could have done to prevent that. The factory's design, by using a sealed bearing, forces the bearing to rely on a small amount of grease to lubricate the bearing, the heat generated by the axial loads of the impellers thrust causes the air inside the housing to expand, and some will escape through the seal and rear o-ring. When the pump cools down it creates a vacuum (remember preserve jars?) which sucks water back into the housing, and eventually fills it up over time, causing the bearings to fail. I use a two seal system which provides positive sealing from both directions as well as a gasket on the rear cone, this allows the housing to be filled with gear oil which potentially lengthens the life of the bearings indefinitely.

Not much you can do with the stock Honda GC190, it is what it is and there are no performance parts available for them. Many people have converted to either a GX200 (like myself) or to the Subaru EX21 like the factory currently uses. Either of those motors can be obtained with electric start, fabrication is required unless you purchase the retro kit from Mokai along with their cables and new linkage etc.. which can be a very expensive proposition to gain 3-4 mph and a starter.  Definitely nice to have though!
Tom

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Offline Hillbilly

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 09:06:26 AM »
Mokai makes a retrofit kit for the EX 21?  Do you know how much it is and what it includes?

Don, there are a few things you can do with the GC190 to improve performance.  Maybe we should start a GC190 thread

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2012, 09:16:21 AM »
Mokai makes a retrofit kit for the EX 21?  Do you know how much it is and what it includes?

I was referring to the ES conversion kit they had on their site. From what I saw it included the complete motor minus muffler (not sure about linkage?), and the complete wiring harness with battery for $1200. For somebody to use that in an older boat it would amount to paying $700 for wiring and a battery, since the EX17 with ES can be found for $500 shipped as we've seen from ebay.

http://www.mokai.com/es-specificationsWide.html

Quote
Don, there are a few things you can do with the GC190 to improve performance.  Maybe we should start a GC190 thread

Go for it, that would be very helpful and a great idea. Thanks George.  ;D
Tom

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Offline Don Ordes

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 10:35:19 AM »

Don, there are a few things you can do with the GC190 to improve performance.  Maybe we should start a GC190 thread

Thanks, Hillbuddy- what things are you talking about?  Do a need a motor shop to do them?

Offline Don Ordes

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 10:49:35 AM »
Email sent, Don.  ;)
Not much you can do with the stock Honda GC190, it is what it is and there are no performance parts available for them. Many people have converted to either a GX200 (like myself) or to the Subaru EX21 like the factory currently uses. Either of those motors can be obtained with electric start, fabrication is required unless you purchase the retro kit from Mokai along with their cables and new linkage etc.. which can be a very expensive proposition to gain 3-4 mph and a starter.  Definitely nice to have though!

What does the GX200 give you and what does it take and cost to convert?

What is the advantage of the Subaru EX21, as I remember from your video you said it was in the 7hp range?  What speeds are you getting out of this and what hp is yours putting out?

Seems like my 10hp motor would do much better if it would just rev a little bit higher.  Would this hurt it if there was a way to do it?  I know that the 5 & 6hp outboard motors are identical with just the difference in rev. and jetting,  (from what I'm told), and the sticker on the housing.

With the clutch, I think I can live with the pull start.  How long can it idle without hurting anything, and would it be better to idle for a little before shutting the engine off, like a cool-down period, if I've been running at top speed.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 11:10:21 AM »
The clutch can idle forever without hurting anything, the drum rides on a big sealed bearing. Letting the motor idle for a few minutes before shutdown will help cool down significantly.

You said you have the stock honda GC190 motor, right? That is a 6hp motor. My GX200 is "rated" at "11hp" but @ 5500 rpm which I will never see since there isn't enough torque to achieve that rpm. My max is 4020 rpm and that equates to 13-15 mph with a current going downriver. I am probably getting 6.5-7hp at my rpm range but being a GX200 there are many parts available to bump the power up later if desired, plus I have electric start which is priceless.

Converting to either the GX200 or the Subaru EX21 would require fabrication on your part to hook up the linkage and adapt the air intake ducting for cooling the motor. In my conversion, I spent very close to $1200 but was able to fabricate things I could not buy which is something many people don't have as an option. Electric start would require wiring harness etc. in addition to the mechanical aspects.
Tom

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Offline Don Ordes

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Re: 2005 pump shaft won't turn
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 12:10:49 PM »
The clutch can idle forever without hurting anything, the drum rides on a big sealed bearing. Letting the motor idle for a few minutes before shutdown will help cool down significantly.

You said you have the stock honda GC190 motor, right? That is a 6hp motor. My GX200 is "rated" at "11hp" but @ 5500 rpm which I will never see since there isn't enough torque to achieve that rpm. My max is 4020 rpm and that equates to 13-15 mph with a current going downriver. I am probably getting 6.5-7hp at my rpm range but being a GX200 there are many parts available to bump the power up later if desired, plus I have electric start which is priceless.


I just checked the original file and you are correct about the hp..  My memory ain't what it used to be, amongst other things.  For now I am satisfied with the performance, but I would like to bump the rpms just to see if that would work.