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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2020, 02:43:31 PM »
There isn't much of anything that will truly adhere to HDPE, the epoxy in this situation is just a solid filler and doesn't need to adhere; it just needs to be there to ensure the floor and pump area all move in unison instead of flexing.
Tom

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Offline happul3

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2020, 11:28:16 PM »
It is indeed very doubtful that epoxy will adhere to HDPE significantly. But that is less of a concern considering that it may also be too rigid whenever floor and pump area move out of sync, which is bound to happen frequently. I'd look for some urethane rubber foam formulation as a filler. It wins on both counts: adhesion  is stronger (in general, and probably with HDPE specifically) and it is both tough and flexible. The key is to find the right formulation, something that will form something similar to shoe sole material after it foams/expands and cures. And not to mistake urethane (moisture-curing/expanding) with polyurethane, which shrinks rather than expandes. But I am just speculating here; it is entirely possible that epoxy fill will  work, at least in a short term. It certainly looked nice :)

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2020, 02:32:21 PM »
It will work as long as it stays in place, and with all the shapes and contours there isn't any way for that cured shape to come out short of breaking it apart in sections. Personally I fill part of the section with a couple pieces of HDPE stacked up so motion is transferred from the floor to the transom, then I fill the rest with max expanding foam, trim and coat with polyurethane, then paint. Goal is just to have something under that pump area to translate motion so the entire back of that boat moves as one without flex. My method is faster, but the epoxy is super clean looking and impressive.  \./8
Tom

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Offline Relichunter

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #78 on: June 22, 2020, 05:59:28 PM »
Been absent from the forum for a good while, old engineers never get to retire :'(
Last summer I had taken out my 2009 Mokai for the first time in a couple seasons. I wasn't on the lake more than 10 minutes when I noticed water in the bottom of the boat. Straight back to the launch and horrified to find the big "dreaded cracks" in the stern around the impeller housing bolt holes.
Called the manufacturer and didn't get any help other than being told I could weld the cracks, and if necessary, cut a hole in the bottom of the boat to repair cracks I couldn't get to from inside then weld the hole back up. >:(

Then I found Painlesstom's diagnosis of the problem. I believe he hit the nail right square on the head, additional support to minimize transom flexing.
First I welded all the cracks. Next was to come up with some method of support for the transom and water tunnel to eliminate the flexing. My idea was kind of simplistic. I got a few quarts of fiberglass strand reinforced Bondo and some sheets of loose woven fiberglass mat. I cut the mats into approx. 10”x12” squares, laid them flat, spread Bondo over them, then rolled them up to what can best be described as a jelly roll with too much jelly. Using a piece of scrap wood, I laid the Bondo roll under the stern and pushed it all the ways back until it was firmly in place at the rear of the opening in the hull. I did make sure to leave enough room for water to drain out the drain hole at the rear. I added more rolls until the entire void under the impeller housing and up to and beyond the transom was packed full. For the void directly under the water inlet I used a couple of rolls pushed through the void under the water inlet, squeezed them inwards to totally fill that void then wrapped the ends forward further strengthening the water inlet. It isn’t anywhere near as pretty as Waverunner’s but it worked OK for me. I sprayed the exposed Bondo with some Flexseal just to be sure any standing water in the hull wouldn’t weaken the Bondo.
It was raining heavily today when I snapped a picture to give some idea of what the repair finally came out like, so sorry for the poor quality.
I carry a GPS with me and after the repair set it to record elapsed time and mileage. Since the repair I have logged over (IIRC) 250 miles and near 100 hours. The Mokai is original except for a few Painlesstom additions. The Hull Bearing Grease System, Aluminum Wear Ring, old model Flexible Engine Coupling, machined engine feet for easy engine install/removal. Still running the original Honda 6hp engine. I am a pretty big old man so loaded up with my gear, figure a 250#+ load. I can hit a top speed of about 11mph.
Can't say enough great things about Painlesstom, without his help I was ready to burn the darn boat and post pictures to all of Social Media. >:D
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 06:06:41 PM by Relichunter »

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2020, 06:28:49 PM »
That's one way to do it! Good job. :)

Think it's safe to say you won't have any more problems. Glad I've been able to help, you're very welcome, and I appreciate your post and feedback.  \./8
Tom

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Offline Hillbilly

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #80 on: June 23, 2020, 08:07:12 AM »
Nice job, Relichunter.  Once Tom discovered the real cause of the problem, several good solutions have come up.  Like yours because you can do a one stop at the auto parts store, come home and do it pretty quickly.  How long did it take to complete the "jelly roll fix"?  Also how did the Flexseal stick to the hull?  Thanks

Offline Relichunter

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2020, 11:23:00 AM »
Nice job, Relichunter.  Once Tom discovered the real cause of the problem, several good solutions have come up.  Like yours because you can do a one stop at the auto parts store, come home and do it pretty quickly.  How long did it take to complete the "jelly roll fix"?  Also how did the Flexseal stick to the hull?  Thanks
Hi Hillbilly. Many, many thanks to PainlessTom for his diagnosis of the cause of the cracks. Couldn’t find anyone anywhere on the Internet that even mentioned those cracks. The manufacturer was absolutely no help. They acted like the problem didn’t exist and my call was “the first they ever heard about it”. Their suggestions of “welding” the cracks and nothing else was useless and pointless. I described to them that the craft was totally useless as it was and even hinted for a small rebate on a new boat to help. They wouldn’t entertain that idea at all. Alternatively to repairing it myself, they offered up “maybe I could find someone in my area that does plastic welding”. Their customer service is the worst I have ever encountered in my life. They will go overboard to make the sale, but once that’s done, you are on your own. They can’t be bothered by us peasants that spent a lot of money on a boat and then find themselves with a totally unusable craft. If anyone buys one, they better be prepared with some skill sets. I have been in upper management my entire life and own my engineering company. If we treated customers a thousand times less poorly, we would have been out of business after the first project. I had a neighbor once that didn’t even own a hammer. Imagine how he would have reacted? Sorry for the rant, but I am still very much PO’d to this day. Since that experience, anyone that asks me about my boat also gets the “worst customer service in the world” qualification with it. The distance between them and PainlessTom on customer service has to be measured in millions of light years.

Once I got the supplies and actually started the work, I may have spent 4 or 5 hours tops on it. Don’t recall exactly but the “jelly roll” patch work wasn’t the only project I did that day. I haven’t tried to pull any of the Flexseal off the hull material but it certainly isn’t peeling away. Like when I hit the Flexseal paint with a water hose, there aren’t any loose flecks of it coming off and floating around in the water. I was a bit surprised with the Flexseal. For some reason I had it in my head it would dry quickly. Quite the opposite, had to let it dry overnight and then some.

Again, sorry for the rant, just thinking about their customer service sets my hair on fire. Quite the opposite of PainlessTom. His knowledge and caring are more like a fire extinguisher.

Offline CC-CODER

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #82 on: June 23, 2020, 06:06:30 PM »
Great news, hope you get to use your Mokai a lot more and smile when thinking of Mokai's customer service. I'm happy to only have had to work with Tom, my rant may have never ended if I didn't choose Craigslist and Painless Tom as my go to option!
Tom fixed ours as seen in the start of this thread and after I fixed a few cracks on top of the haul with the wire mesh as he suggested, there hasen't been one issue in the pump area or top of haul in 3 years.
After a few more years of fuel problems to my Mokai, this seems to be fixed as well.  I almost have the confidence to attempt going down river....but probably won't ever take that chance. Lol
Glad you were able to solve your leak issue and show us another option for repairing it.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 06:16:40 PM by CC-CODER »
🤦🏼‍♂️ Chuck 🤷🏻‍♂️

Offline Hillbilly

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #83 on: June 24, 2020, 08:15:05 AM »
Thanks, Relichunter.  Good to learn more about your process and also the Flexseal.  One of my boats sunk in the Mississippi River several years ago because of the "crack".  We pulled the boat out, drained and dried it and towed it to Memphis for take-out.   Tom guided me through the entire process of fixing the problem and made sure I understood what I was doing.  Thanks again, Tom.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: I will not be a victim of CRACK! (Update - Still Cracked....)
« Reply #84 on: June 24, 2020, 08:38:12 AM »
Always glad to help. I want to see everyone get the most out of their Mokai.  >:D
Tom

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