$txt['youtube'] = 'YouTube'; $txt['youtube_invalid'] = '#Invalid YouTube Link#'; 2.0

Author Topic: 2.0  (Read 5087 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5595
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 55
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: 2.0
« Reply #105 on: June 05, 2019, 12:23:55 AM »
Yeah, you could be right there. Looking over one shot I can see the faint outline of what could very well be a recoil starter inside that plenum. Definietly would block a good bit of airflow stuffed in there like that.
Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5595
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 55
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: 2.0
« Reply #106 on: June 06, 2019, 09:22:59 PM »
Received this in an email today from a 2.0 owner that I had inquired about speed test results.

"Was out this afternoon.  I mostly use Mokai to run fast water when creeks are running high. Got stuck on top of a rock and thought I was going to capsize. Took a good 5 minutes to make it off. Took in lots of water.
This boat is so open I think a spray skirt would be too big and dangerous if off boat and having a big skirt attached to me.
With fast current canít really get accurate speed. Got 14 mph going up some slow current. This boat takes in water at engine compartment when going up stream in rapids. Mokai said the aluminum runners on the sides are to control water spray for heavy people and not to help plain off. They may be too small. Boat is definitely to back end heavy and fuel tank needs to be in front of foot rest like I did."


Doesn't sounds like much of an upgrade to me, weight and open hood area is going to cause some of the biggest problems I think. Anyhow, thought everyone would like to hear some feedback from an owner.

Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com

Offline bizler

  • Mokai Addict Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 563
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Vancouver, WA
  • Cool Points: 45
  • Engine: EX21 W/EX17 Head
  • Model Year: 2010
Re: 2.0
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2019, 10:31:24 AM »
Doesnít sound like the 2.0 is suited for moderate rough water. In my experience, going upstream is much easier and less apt to take on water compared to downstream. With upstream you can pick your path an back off if necessary. Going downstream you are committed and have little control; going too slow counters steering and current pushes the boat into the chute. Too fast and the bow is apt to bury itself in the standing wave bringing water over the bow. IMO, all Mokaiís need a windshield or splash-guard for anything more than flat water.

Secondly, it sounds like the 2.0 is overloaded if the operator weighs more than 100 lbs., let alone the specified 200 lbs. ???

Offline Craig5251

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Downingtown, Pa.
  • Cool Points: 16
  • Engine: Subaru KX17, 7hp
  • Model Year: 2012
Re: 2.0
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2019, 02:56:13 PM »
Good thing I didnít wait for one, two years later! I would have freaked out to hear about the weight limit. Iím 315lbs.

Offline niteshft

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Location: Maine, USA
  • Cool Points: 1
  • Engine: honda GC190
  • Model Year: 2007
Re: 2.0
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2019, 05:07:25 PM »
Yep...sounds like the Mokai is going to be dead in the water soon. I never liked it's restriction, being in a cockpit makes it difficult for fly fishing, especially when you are anchored...the breeze can turn you away from the direction you want to cast. That and sitting so close to the water turned me off rather quickly with my style of fishing.

  I did enjoy cruising around and getting looks from others in the water. While beached at a campsite, a youngster hollered out, "Hey Dad, look at the special forces boat, what's it doing here?." LOL

Offline Mokai Dreamin'

  • Mokai Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Alaska
  • Cool Points: 8
  • Engine: EX21
  • Model Year: 2006 (sold)
Re: 2.0
« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2019, 07:25:59 PM »
Yep...sounds like the Mokai is going to be dead in the water soon. I never liked it's restriction, being in a cockpit makes it difficult for fly fishing, especially when you are anchored...the breeze can turn you away from the direction you want to cast. That and sitting so close to the water turned me off rather quickly with my style of fishing.

  I did enjoy cruising around and getting looks from others in the water. While beached at a campsite, a youngster hollered out, "Hey Dad, look at the special forces boat, what's it doing here?." LOL
You may want to consider a duel anchor system. One at the Stern and one at the bow. It will keep you from rotating. Ironically, I think most people like sitting at water level and that is the appeal of the Mokai. Lower center of gravity as well.

I owned the Stik boat the last couple of years and that is more of a sit on top motorized kayak. You may actually prefer it. The entire deck is fishable, and it's way more stable than the Mokai. Currently Stik is working on more of a micro skiff, but not sure exactly what they are going to release. It's going to be a bit larger than the Mokai though, and also probably heavier as well. It may be something to check out.

I don't think that Mokai Is dead in the water at all, but their audience may shift a bit. I think it would be rather arrogant to think that all Mokai owners are going to be using or subjecting the boat to the same conditions of the single reviewer we have so far.

In order for Mokai to get more speed, they either had to go to a larger engine or some type of a gear system, and they ended up doing a little bit of both. Speed has been one of the biggest single complaints, and the point of so many upgrades.

I'm just curious what others think would be the solution to the problem without adding additional weight?. A higher compression ratio engine helps, but that only goes so far. At some point you need to go larger to get the extra torque and power needed to propel the boat faster.

Stik was able to get 25 miles an hour out of a similar size boat, but they went to a 10 to 1 compression ratio engine and increased the HP. I believe it weights 75 pounds or so, and I don't think that includes the exhaust system. It is also watercooled, so that add some additional weight. I just can't think of any solution to go faster, without adding additional weight.  New hull design? They did it.
About the only thing you can do is redistribute the weight, but the overall capacity of the boat is going to be reduced regardless. The next step would be to go to an even larger boat, and perhaps that will be the next step for Mokai. At that point than they could start adding things like water cooling, etc, but that would no longer be a Mokai as we know it.

Perhaps Mokai has already pushed things too far? I guess that's yet another point for discussion. I really don't think it's all negative though, mostly, I just think it's different. There are refinements that can be done to solve some of the problems just like on previous models.

Of course, there's also some limitations too, and that's the trade-off for the extra speed. I guess you can always buy the version 1 or go back to an even older model. There are always options.
Best,
Troy

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5595
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 55
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: 2.0
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2019, 08:01:40 PM »
I always viewed the Mokai as a powered alternative to the "kayak". Something you could take in the same shallow areas, and beyond because of it's ability to jump logs etc.. Each new model got a little heavier, and less capable of performing that. Sure speed it nice, but crippling the useablility of what the boat was originally targeted for in order to go faster takes it out of the category it began with and puts it up beside boats like Stik and the common Jet Ski... that really does go fast but can't go in shallow water. It's like they took an ATV and made it more street friendly while limiting it's ability to go offroad as it was intended. That's my perspective on it anyhow. I feel they have lost sight of thier goal, missing their target by a mile but running with it anyhow. I know one of their goals was to try removing me from the picture.. After all the years of them preaching how a clutch was such a bad idea, it was almost satisfying to see them swallow their pride and steal the idea.  :D
Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com

Offline Mokai Dreamin'

  • Mokai Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Alaska
  • Cool Points: 8
  • Engine: EX21
  • Model Year: 2006 (sold)
Re: 2.0
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2019, 08:51:28 PM »
Well Tom, I totally appreciate your perspective and feelings. Mokai took a calculated business risk, and it's possible they could fall cleanly on their face. Remember Coca-Cola and the "new" coke? Sometimes new ideas and concepts excel and other times they fail miserably. If the company is really paying attention, they will provide a product their public wants or fold up.

While there are a lot of forum members here,  I honestly don't know what percentage of total Mokai users they represent. Mokai may have just opened up a completely new market that will be quite successful, or not,  I have no idea. 

 For some, the increased speed and  gadgetry will be "better" and for others it will have totally destroyed the simplicity and  vision of the original craft. Which is better is subjective. 

 I have an old 1989 Volkswagen vanagon camper with pop up tent top.  There is almost a cult  following for the thing.  I think somewhere around 1992 they came out with the Eurovan.  Completely different vehicle that  only marginally represented the original.  Volkswagen opened up a completely different market.  The new vehicle was much safer,  the engine was more capable, etc. etc.  They nevertheless lost a group of loyal followers, and the older vehicles became very much sought after.

In the end though,  the new vehicle wasn't worse or better it was just  different.  I kinda see that with Mokai.  There are is going to be those who always love the old design, and  some will embrace the new.  Both for different reasons,  and both valid.

We still have the ability to choose. I think it will be possible to keep an old Mokai going for a very long time, if that is your intention. 

My only beef is looking at a new design with total negativity. That's like going after the Stik boat with total negativity or a jet boat with total negativity. Both have their place. Again I think it's pretty arrogant to think that there's only one great design. Great for what and for whom? People have different needs and expectations. I just feel blessed we have some options!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 08:53:11 PM by Mokai Dreamin' »
Best,
Troy

Offline Painlesstom

  • Painless Tom
  • Administrator
  • Mokai Maniac Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5595
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Georgia
  • Cool Points: 55
  • Making Your Mokai... A Better Mokai!
    • Painless Products
  • Engine: EX21 w/17 head - ES
  • Model Year: 2003 / 2011 / 2015
Re: 2.0
« Reply #113 on: June 08, 2019, 08:41:49 AM »
Never said there was one great design, so far none of them have been that great out of the box. lol Each one has had it's qualities, it's just a shame those qualities didn't follow to the next model and were replaced with something less desirable. First model had an aluminum foot that slid up from below to complete the intake tunnel and serve as the wear ring housing/pump mount/intake grate mount. This made the back of the boat virtually indestructible and it was a great design, next model got rid of that and the simply molded the whole thing in plastic with no support.... cracks ensued and everyone had leaks to look forward to. ES-kape came along and while they might have fixed the cracking problems, they shoved electronic controls on everyone and took away the comfort of locking down the throttle and riding hands free... and changed the hull shape so much the boat didn't track or react to leaning like it used to and that ruined the experience for many. Simply was not ergonomic or enjoyable at all for any kind of trip longer than a mile. Sure the cockpit was much larger and more comfortable, but spending time in it was simply frustating now. 2.0 has gone next level on making the electronics more reliable, but hasn't changed anything to make it more enjoyable... Nobody enjoys holding a joystick for hours during a long trip, would you want to hold a joystick forward for a 20 mile full throttle run?? The boat is a hog now, and with no floatation behind the seat there is no more option for a storage compartment there. More options gone. I think they are stubbornly trying to stick with their bad ideas while chasing a profit margin.. more than really trying to offer a watercraft that is truly enjoyable, if they chased the later more, the former would be even better. If you want to go fast, there are plenty of other options, the Mokai has always been about getting places other boats can't... Not anymore. It still isn't that fast, and now it can't be used in places previous models could. It's just a boat like any other now, with more limitations. I've always loved the Mokai, as evidenced by this forum and everything I've done over the years to make them work great, and it's just sad to see there isn't anything that can be done to fix some of the biggest downfalls of the new model.  :(
Tom

  >:D    

_________________________

www.PainlessClutch.com