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Author Topic: Fishfinder  (Read 2583 times)

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Offline Rottweilerman

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2019, 06:15:17 PM »
Hey Chuck,  I just measured the voltage on my Nocqua.   11.37 volts and that's after 3 trips on the Stik.  I'm not sure what that voltage equate's  to as far as hours left I'm the battery.
Did you measure your voltage after your first run?

John


Offline CC-Coder

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2019, 10:21:23 PM »
Hey John,
    I got a reading in the 11 range after 3 trips out too. Used it about 3-4 hours each time without turning off. Iím thinking at this rate, probably will only need to charge it once per season. Lol
The unit weighs maybe 2 lbs and not much bigger than a tea cup. Thanks again for the tip, I should get a lot of productive fishing trips for years to come.
🤦🏼‍♂️ Chuck 🤷🏻‍♂️

Offline happul3

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2019, 06:28:05 AM »
Assuming a balanced 3 cell Li, 11.37V = 3.79V for each cell, which is 25-40% of charge left by my estimate. It is a crude, generic estimate, you'd need to get actual discharge curve to get a more accurate number or at least know  the battery type (cylindrical 18650 cells, perhaps)? 

As you may recall, the Li batteries do not like to be deeply discharged, so I'd recharge your battery once you get to below 3.7V per cell. Also, do not charge them unnecessarily often, keeping them topped-up shortens their life.

Offline CC-Coder

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2019, 08:12:11 AM »
Assuming a balanced 3 cell Li, 11.37V = 3.79V for each cell, which is 25-40% of charge left by my estimate. It is a crude, generic estimate, you'd need to get actual discharge curve to get a more accurate number or at least know  the battery type (cylindrical 18650 cells, perhaps)? 

As you may recall, the Li batteries do not like to be deeply discharged, so I'd recharge your battery once you get to below 3.7V per cell. Also, do not charge them unnecessarily often, keeping them topped-up shortens their life.

Thanks for the math lesson and reminding me of the correct charging process. I better recharge them before heading to the reservoir this weekend. 👍🏻
🤦🏼‍♂️ Chuck 🤷🏻‍♂️

Offline CC-Coder

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2019, 10:17:27 AM »
Also, I plan on using the fishfinder with battery in the house this winter to learn the settings better. When not in use for a month or more, would it be better to leave at half, or fully charge it?
🤦🏼‍♂️ Chuck 🤷🏻‍♂️

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2019, 10:21:56 AM »
3.7v per cell would be a good storage charge. Would not store it fully charged. So where it's at right now would be fine to leave it sit, so when you are done for the season let it run down to that.
Tom

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Offline CC-Coder

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2019, 10:51:32 AM »
I see the GooLoo jump starter has similar recommendations, 60% charged for storage when not in use. But, who knows when youíll need to use the jump starter and have it fully charged? Hopefully never!
🤦🏼‍♂️ Chuck 🤷🏻‍♂️

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2019, 02:43:57 PM »
I've been using LiPo batteries for many years, many of them I charge and don't use for a few weeks. Haven't noticed any real problem from the practice, I wouldn't worry about it with regards to the jump start pack; when you need it, you want it as charged as possible on demand. Now with a seasonally used battery I would discharge for storage.
Tom

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Offline Rottweilerman

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2019, 01:41:06 AM »
Glade to see the  battery techno giros are offering their analysis of this great little battery pack \./8.  I think it's amazing this little battery can take the place of the big ones.
I just ordered a 2020 Tracker Classic XL which has a fish finder that runs off the starting circuit when the motor isn't running, at least I think that how it's operates :).  I haven't ask that question yet.  I'm sure someone on the forum will answer that for me ::).  I may purchasing a Nocqua Pro Power and splice it into the fish finder and take the boat electronics out of the equation.

The next big decision is, do I keep my Stik Boat or let someone else enjoy.
Anyway, the Nocqua is a good find for those that want a small power pack with a good punch.

John

Offline CC-Coder

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2019, 12:14:03 PM »
They say it has about 500 life cycles which should get us around 4 or 5 seasons, not bad. You can buy a y-cable and add one of their lights or another battery to power a second fishfinder.  I tried 4 different lighter plugs for the GoPro and they all vibrated loose so I didnít want the fishfinder doing the same. Figure about $30 more a year to have peace of mind and maybe help land the Big one, worth it to me.
🤦🏼‍♂️ Chuck 🤷🏻‍♂️

Offline Mokai Dreamin'

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2019, 01:32:46 PM »
Assuming a balanced 3 cell Li, 11.37V = 3.79V for each cell, which is 25-40% of charge left by my estimate. It is a crude, generic estimate, you'd need to get actual discharge curve to get a more accurate number or at least know  the battery type (cylindrical 18650 cells, perhaps)? 

As you may recall, the Li batteries do not like to be deeply discharged, so I'd recharge your battery once you get to below 3.7V per cell. Also, do not charge them unnecessarily often, keeping them topped-up shortens their life.
If I'm not mistaken the lithium-ion batteries are basically the same thing we use in laptop computers and cell phones. I noticed for example in my laptop, if you do not set your battery parameters so that it discharges down to 15% or so before you recharge, you will kill the battery in short order. (under a year). So the information appears to be correct to me. I've read this elsewhere on the web too, and have also experienced first hand killing batteries within a year, by just keeping them topped off, instead of allowing them to discharge more fully before charging. Problem is without some kind of a smart charger or monitor, you will probably kill the battery prematurely.

Interesting in the Mokai,  version 1 and 2 of the ES-Kape that they are using the lithium ion phosphate batteries, and essentially trickle charging them every time you use the boat via the engine charging system. If I'm not mistaken this is also going to kill the battery within about a year. I'm not sure in this instance how to remedy that as you would need to allow the battery to run down more before charging, but that would essentially mean turning the charging system off on the boat, and manually charging the battery, and monitoring yourself. 

Am I correct or missing something?
Best,
Troy

Offline Mokai Dreamin'

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2019, 01:44:36 PM »
Glade to see the  battery techno giros are offering their analysis of this great little battery pack \./8 .  I think it's amazing this little battery can take the place of the big ones.
I just ordered a 2020 Tracker Classic XL which has a fish finder that runs off the starting circuit when the motor isn't running, at least I think that how it's operates :) .  I haven't ask that question yet.  I'm sure someone on the forum will answer that for me ::) .  I may purchasing a Nocqua Pro Power and splice it into the fish finder and take the boat electronics out of the equation.

The next big decision is, do I keep my Stik Boat or let someone else enjoy.
Anyway, the Nocqua is a good find for those that want a small power pack with a good punch.

John
Aquanami will be releasing the new version of the boat during the Miami boat show, which is February 13-17 2020. If I were in your shoes, I would move your boat soon while demand is high.    The flipside is if tariffs stay in place or are increased, the price of the current boat is  going to jump at least 10%, if not more, so this would also make a used boat more attractive to some.  I think with the features of the new boat, most  people are going to opt for a new model though.
Best,
Troy

Offline happul3

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2019, 03:37:31 PM »
If I'm not mistaken the lithium-ion batteries are basically the same thing we use in laptop computers and cell phones. I noticed for example in my laptop, if you do not set your battery parameters so that it discharges down to 15% or so before you recharge, you will kill the battery in short order. (under a year). So the information appears to be correct to me. I've read this elsewhere on the web too, and have also experienced first hand killing batteries within a year, by just keeping them topped off, instead of allowing them to discharge more fully before charging. Problem is without some kind of a smart charger or monitor, you will probably kill the battery prematurely.

Interesting in the Mokai,  version 1 and 2 of the ES-Kape that they are using the lithium ion phosphate batteries, and essentially trickle charging them every time you use the boat via the engine charging system. If I'm not mistaken this is also going to kill the battery within about a year. I'm not sure in this instance how to remedy that as you would need to allow the battery to run down more before charging, but that would essentially mean turning the charging system off on the boat, and manually charging the battery, and monitoring yourself. 

Am I correct or missing something?

To be fair, the recommendations not to top-up or not to discharge completely aren't meant to say that any Li battery will be destroyed quickly otherwise. They are just supposed to prolong the useful life, for example, if a battery is rated for 1000 cycles to loose 50% capacity, one might get significantly more equivalent cycles by following those recommendations. And a proper battery with a correct BMS/charger will last a long time even is one fully charges it every day. Incidentally, it is a lot harder on Li battery to do one 0<->100 cycle compared to one 80<->100 cycle  (however, five 80 <-> 100 cycles would be harder than  one 0<->100 cycle).

Unfortunately, the batteries and BMS/chargers don't always live up to their specs and might not play well together in long term. So I am not surprised that there were lots of stories of phones and other gadgets dying in months with everyday charging. I believe those were just engineered badly. Don't hear much of that for a few last years, at least, which probably means that they finally learned the lesson. Personally, I follow the charge/discharge recommendations only when it is convenient and do not sweat it otherwise. My main portable computer is discharged to ~80-90% almost everyday when I am away from AC outlet and so when I plug it in it tops up to 100%. I bought this computer about 5 years ago and the battery is still fine with this usage...

About Escape and trickle-charging LiFe battery. My v1 Escape (2014) came with regular lead battery so I can't say for sure how well the whole thing operates, but it is very easy to keep LiFe battery happy. It likely has the built-in BMS that turns charging off when the battery reaches at 100% and won't start charging until it drops below ~95%. If so, there won't be any trickle-charging even if you spent the whole day running the motor. Also, LiFe batteries have lower power storage capacity, but are safer and live a lot longer (more cycles, 3000 cycles is commonly quoted number). So even if you run everyday six months per year, I wouldn't be surprised that it lasts 10 years or longer.


Offline Mokai Dreamin'

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2019, 05:34:08 PM »
About Escape and trickle-charging LiFe battery. My v1 Escape (2014) came with regular lead battery so I can't say for sure how well the whole thing operates, but it is very easy to keep LiFe battery happy. It likely has the built-in BMS that turns charging off when the battery reaches at 100% and won't start charging until it drops below ~95%. If so, there won't be any trickle-charging even if you spent the whole day running the motor. Also, LiFe batteries have lower power storage capacity, but are safer and live a lot longer (more cycles, 3000 cycles is commonly quoted number). So even if you run everyday six months per year, I wouldn't be surprised that it lasts 10 years or longer.
I thought all version 1 ES-Kape's came with the Lipo batteries so it's news to me that some versions came with lead acid batteries. Perhaps the initial offered year? Anyway, not so important.

It would make sense that the battery would have some kind of a management system.  To my understanding the lithium iron phosphate/ polymer batteries can be dangerous if overcharged. I've heard of some burning violently. My point was that they're not allowed to  discharge down to 15%.  Only 5% discharge is not much different than keeping charged all the time.

My only frame of reference is my newer  laptop, which I left plugged into AC pretty much all the time. So this is a scenario where it would have shut off at 100% and probably came back on it 95%. It was dead in under a year. I've now set my battery monitor/energy saver settings to allow it to drop to 15% before it charges. So far, no issues and it's been at least another year with a new battery. It's possible there was just some fluke with that first one too.

I do feel better that this hundred dollars battery is not going to die within a year. The lightweight certainly seems ideal for the Mokai that is already so weight sensitive. An AGM lead acid battery can easily weigh 7 or 8 pounds, and  that's pretty significant in these boats.

I appreciate the response!
Best,
Troy

Offline happul3

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Re: Fishfinder
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2019, 06:25:24 PM »
If a battery pack (that includes BMS circuit, unless it is RC DIY kind) isn't defective it cannot be overcharged, plain and simple. I also wouldn't worry about burning unless one physically damages the battery (dropping, puncturing it) or overheats it (external heat or insulation) while charging. And LiFe (LiFePO4, LFP) batteries are particularly safe, haven't heard of anything violent involving them at all.