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Offline CC-Coder

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CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« on: September 01, 2017, 10:59:40 PM »
Motor still sputtering after draining carb bowl and making sure the oil level was correct. Could it be water in the non-ethanol gas?
Not sure but seems to happen after coming off plane and going to idle. It only happened the one time after going about a mile at 3/4 to full throttle. Is this a normal occurrence with these engines and boats since they sit at an angle while on plane? The problem happened 4 times last week on my wife's 2010 Mokai / Subaru engine. (20 mile trip)
Bought this gas from a gas station down the road from Lernerville raceway (PA), figured most of the local drivers use the same gas for their vehicles on race weekends. Previous gas was bought from Ravenna Oil, a supplier to marina's along lake Erie and other places. Probably will be sticking with Ravenna to see if that is the fix. Fortunately, I wore my head mount for the GoPro, if you turn up the volume while watching, you might be able to hear what I heard.  Any other suggestions would be appreciated. - thanks

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMJ_DY3MPT0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMJ_DY3MPT0</a>
🤦🏼‍♂️ Chuck 🤷🏻‍♂️

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2017, 11:50:32 PM »
Sounds like something in the carb, mine used to do that for the longest time after coming off full throttle. Had to keep it above idle for a bit before it would stabilize. Later I ended up having other issues that prompted me to pull the bowl and clean the whole carb out, after that it would idle solid as a rock no matter what I did. I doubt it has anything to do with gas brand, you could try running 93 octane in it though (or some octane booster so you don't get Ethanol involved), and see it that helps. The EX17 head does run hotter from the higher compression and it's possible that could be a contributing factor.
Tom

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Offline CC-Coder

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 09:16:52 AM »
Sounds like something in the carb, mine used to do that for the longest time after coming off full throttle. Had to keep it above idle for a bit before it would stabilize. Later I ended up having other issues that prompted me to pull the bowl and clean the whole carb out, after that it would idle solid as a rock no matter what I did. I doubt it has anything to do with gas brand, you could try running 93 octane in it though (or some octane booster so you don't get Ethanol involved), and see it that helps. The EX17 head does run hotter from the higher compression and it's possible that could be a contributing factor.
I doubt it's water in the gas but something in both carbs, anything is possible. I watched your old post on how to clean the carb, but don't feel comfortable messing with it. Could it be taken off and sent down to you? New engine and fuel filter along with new gas cans, shame if it's dirt in the carb.  :'(
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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 09:23:23 AM »
Have you drained the bowl yet? You can also take the breather box off and spray carb cleaner in the air passages. If nothing makes a difference then we'll talk about sending the carb to me.
Tom

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Offline CC-Coder

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2017, 09:49:38 AM »
Have you drained the bowl yet? You can also take the breather box off and spray carb cleaner in the air passages. If nothing makes a difference then we'll talk about sending the carb to me.

Yes, drained both bowls and took out some oil in both motors before taking mine for a test yesterday. I agree with sending them to you. If it's only happening every once in awhile, we can deal with it till the end of our Mokai season. Guess I can try a few more things until then.
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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2017, 10:11:26 AM »
Have you changed the idle speed or anything? If it's too low you could have that problem. The highest idle speed without ringing the clutch is where it should be.
Tom

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Offline Hillbilly

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2017, 10:21:13 AM »
Chuck,
I'm interested in your problem, too.  Could be a dirty carb.  Don't be afraid to take it off, remove bowl, float and needle valve to spray out all the passages.  You won't bugger it up.  Do you run a filter between fuel pump and carb?  I've done this for all motors for years since being stranded in the middle of the Allegheny River by a speck of dirt.  If you are running a stock main jet, you may be dealing with quite a lean mixture.  The motors are factory set to run clean(by running lean). Tom's muffler flows way better than stock so allows more air through and leans the mix further.  A lean mix makes the motor run hotter.  You want a slightly rich mix, especially with the 17 head, which as Tom says, runs a little hotter.
Looking forward to your solution.  Tom's Painless carb massage will answer it for sure.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 10:47:09 AM »
Chuck,
I'm interested in your problem, too.  Could be a dirty carb.  Don't be afraid to take it off, remove bowl, float and needle valve to spray out all the passages.  You won't bugger it up.  Do you run a filter between fuel pump and carb?  I've done this for all motors for years since being stranded in the middle of the Allegheny River by a speck of dirt.  If you are running a stock main jet, you may be dealing with quite a lean mixture.  The motors are factory set to run clean(by running lean). Tom's muffler flows way better than stock so allows more air through and leans the mix further.  A lean mix makes the motor run hotter.  You want a slightly rich mix, especially with the 17 head, which as Tom says, runs a little hotter.
Looking forward to your solution.  Tom's Painless carb massage will answer it for sure.

I built these motors, and set the carbs up. I'm doubtful about the dirt theory, but it's worth a try before going further, would certainly cause this problem. All the fuel pump pressure issues with the float needle lately has me feeling this could be a cause though, if it's not dirt or idle speed. These carbs do not like pressure, I've been trying to get these to consistently work without adding more fittings with a return system.
Tom

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Offline CC-Coder

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 11:09:46 AM »
Have you changed the idle speed or anything? If it's too low you could have that problem. The highest idle speed without ringing the clutch is where it should be.
Nope, probably wouldn't even no how.  :)
I've only changed oil twice and filled with gas, besides crack repairs.
I did tighten the nut on the fuel tank connection yesterday, seemed loose so I thought air might get sucked into the tank. This is where the fuel line connects to the tank. Also, recently bought a tach that only reads hours. Rapped 4 times around plug wire, working fine.
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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2017, 03:35:46 PM »
If you look at the engine from the valve cover side, the plug will be to the right and then you'll look down and to the right of that and the carburetor lever will be in view with the idle speed screw sticking out. Turn it in 1/8th turn clockwise to raise the idle a little. If you raise it too much you will hear the clutch engage, you don't want that, and you will need to back it down a hair. Try that and see if there is any improvement.
Tom

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Offline CC-Coder

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2017, 03:40:08 PM »
If you look at the engine from the valve cover side, the plug will be to the right and then you'll look down and to the right of that and the carburetor lever will be in view with the idle speed screw sticking out. Turn it in 1/8th turn clockwise to raise the idle a little. If you raise it too much you will hear the clutch engage, you don't want that, and you will need to back it down a hair. Try that and see if there is any improvement.

Definitely take a look tomorrow, I'll need to try this adjustment before our downtown Pgh 3 rivers tour. Any takers? Sept 10 or 11th.
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Offline Larry

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 06:16:17 PM »
Tom..Is this an issue just with the stock Subaru or even with the upgraded one.

Offline CC-Coder

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2017, 10:09:38 PM »
If you look at the engine from the valve cover side, the plug will be to the right and then you'll look down and to the right of that and the carburetor lever will be in view with the idle speed screw sticking out. Turn it in 1/8th turn clockwise to raise the idle a little. If you raise it too much you will hear the clutch engage, you don't want that, and you will need to back it down a hair. Try that and see if there is any improvement.

Would the fact that you tested a new engine with temperatures in the mid 90's compared to our fairly cool summer play a role? If I brought the boats back down, I might not see this issue in Georgia? If I take them out in mid to late Nov with temps in the low 50's, I may need to adjust the idle again?
Elevation above sea level too? Your setup may need changed if the customer lived in Colorado?
🤦🏼‍♂️ Chuck 🤷🏻‍♂️

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2017, 10:51:17 PM »
We don't know if the idle speed is the problem until you adjust and retest. Cooler temps shouldn't have any negative effect whatsoever, but altitude certainly could, not necessarily on idle speed but mixture of the main jet. I'm hoping bumping the idle up will solve your problem, the engines run great other than right off full throttle to idle.

Tom..Is this an issue just with the stock Subaru or even with the upgraded one.

Any Subaru could have carb problems, it's a lawnmower engine in a boat. These motors were never intended to be "driven", and the carbs were designed for use with a gravity feed tank. Using a fuel pump on them, and requiring them to have a nice idle and throttle response, is pushing their ability to the max.  I've figured out a lot of tricks to help make them run better than ever, but sometimes something pops up as a mystery to solve.
Tom

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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: CW-Water In Gas Issue?
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2017, 11:38:09 PM »
I'm pretty close to sea level, roughly 50-75' on the river, so that same motor ran at 1000' would be rich and could potentially have idle issues. What elevation are you at?
Tom

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