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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2018, 08:12:35 AM »
If you go back and study my cable conversion, you will find everything is quick release and the boat continues to be utilized as the 3 piece design.... I plan to have a kit for the 2.0 too as soon as somebody brings one to me so I know what needs to be adapted. But if the joystick fails, you have no steering or throttle and would have to find a way to center the nozzle and then try to lean to steer (or maybe use a paddle) for the trip back as long as you have some string packed away somewhere so you can rig up some kind of throttle control. The ES-kape doesn't respond to leaning like the old models, left and right are opposite and you have to lean much harder to get a reaction.
Tom

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Offline mokamo

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2018, 08:46:22 AM »
Thanks Tom. I will definitely check your design.
I did not think about the possible throttle problem...

Offline happul3

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2018, 03:27:51 PM »
So if this joystick fails when you are miles away, can you still run the boat going back? Anyone had this experience and how did you go back? Is there a DIY to externally control the jet pump nozzle? Im sure the new upcoming 2018 model will continue to use the joystick design. I think i have no choice but to support the joystick as i prefer the 3 hull design for my own specific needs..But there must be a backup control in case it fails.. not the paddling nor trolling motor please..

Reminds me of my very first Mokai outing. The joystick did not fail, but the engine compartment overheated and (as I learned much later) melted plastic gear inside the steering servo. So the end result was the same, I lost directional control. I navigated part of the way back in the following manner: steer with paddle in the needed direction at idle or while engine is off, then gun the motor until boat veers of, repeat... Would've been easy on a lake. Unfortunately I was doing it on a fairly narrow tidal river, and of course against the tide :) I bought Tom's steering kit shortly thereafter - highly recommend anyone with Eskape to do the same.

Offline mokamo

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2018, 04:19:07 PM »

Wow.
Mokai cannot just sell the same servo design in 2018 model without spelling it out how they fixed this known issue.
Bigger exhaust for overheating and better servo that can handle higher temp...
If they have no fix, maybe give buyers the option to either get their own steering design or Tom steering kit so buyers don't end up throwing their Joystick.  :) :)

Happul3,

What did you do to fix the overheating?
And thank you for sharing your experience..

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2018, 04:26:22 PM »
The overheating is a multi point issue. First off many of the pulse port nipples that drive the fuel pump were improperly installed in the carb spacer, coming loose and causing a vacuum leak that resulted in the engine running lean which means more heat. Second, the air plenum is anemic which chokes off air flow for the cooling, then bridging it over to the carb intake makes the engine fight itself for air twice. Combined with the loose pulse port, inadequate ventilation holes in the hood, and a 650f muffler stuffed behind the motor and under the stern not 12" from the steering servo... well, you get the point. Hopefully Mokai does too with this new model, dropping a bigger motor in there it is going to need all the help it can get.
Tom

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Offline happul3

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2018, 04:57:48 PM »
What did you do to fix the overheating?
And thank you for sharing your experience..

Welcome, Mokamo. I'd say that the first thing about overheating is to be aware of potential issue. I hadn't a clue, running full throttle, paying no attention to the engine compartment. So when the joystick response started to feel very wobbly and I looked up back for the first time, it was already beyond "well done" grade.

Later I installed cylinder head temperature sensor and enlarged air intake - you can find my posts describing those upgrades - and also followed Tom's guidance w.r.t. pulse line. The CHT sensor is truly a must have - it costs very little and requires almost no skill or additional parts to install, while providing the most relevant and the fastest response about engine operating state.  And while the enlarged intake takes few hours of work  (there are several recipes to do that, complete with pictures), it actually reduces the engine temperature below critical. Last but not least, Tom's mechanical steering/throttle kit, which I mentioned earlier is highly recommended as well - you never know when electronics inside a servo might call it quits at high temperature operation :)

Offline mokamo

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2018, 08:07:05 PM »
I think this Mokai was not designed to run all day at Full throttle. It has a run time limit which i think should have been mentioned in Mokai manual. Even with all Tom's upgrade, youll still get to a point where motor will overheat if run continously at full throttle. We are just extending its runtime at full throttle. RPM will still go beyond 275 F if run continously at full throttle. With all Toms upgrade, you will still need to reduce rpm (maybe 2400 rom) at a certain point to cool down the motor. So we really need all these monitoring device so we don't go beyond the limit.
So if they deliver 2018 model, first thing you have to do ideally is install all these temp and rpm monitoring device and dont let oil temp go beyond 275 F. So the ideal way of buying a new Mokai is to go to their factory and use their demo unit all day and see if you can live with the limitations.

Anyone feel free to correct me as im not an expert on engines.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2018, 10:17:40 PM »
In stock form, that is correct, but Mokai would never admit there were any limitations so bringing that up with them is a good way to get on their list of phone numbers not to answer.  :D

Oil temp at 275f is WAY too hot, the engine's life meter is running double time when temps get up there.  :-O

With regards to my upgrades that is not true, setting up an ES-kape with my plenum enlargement, water cooled muffler and hood vent, making a true cold air intake for the carb to breath separate from the flywheel, and running no pull starter installed, I have zero overheating issues and my RPM stays pretty consistent all day if not the same... And I am running a milled high compression EX17 head too. I don't have an oil temp gauge on this engine, but I have the same high compression engine setup in my 2011 and the oil temps rarely go over 235f. That is full throttle for 10 miles non stop during the summer, heat is not an issue with the right upgrades.
 ;)
Tom

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Offline happul3

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2018, 10:29:23 PM »
After this summer I feel confident that it is ok to run my Eskape at 3800-3850 rpm for as long as I want. Next summer I might raise the bar to max, which for me is 4050 rpm. One thing to remember is that the rate at which oil degrades is a steep function (likely exponential) of temperature. Each 20 degrees increase may translate into 2X  faster degradation rate (that's a speculation based on typical chemical reactions). So even if running faster does not damage anything, it does mean disproportionately more frequent oil changes.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2018, 10:49:44 PM »
Which is why you should focus on maximizing cooling, and running a good synthetic oil. This is all I run in mine. https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/4-stroke/formula-4-stroke-10w-30-sae-30-small-engine-oil/?code=ASEQT-EA

I'm running 4300-4440 depending on which boat I'm in, can do that all day long without any problems.  \./8
Tom

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Offline happul3

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2018, 11:12:47 PM »
Which is why you should focus on maximizing cooling, and running a good synthetic oil. This is all I run in mine. https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/4-stroke/formula-4-stroke-10w-30-sae-30-small-engine-oil/?code=ASEQT-EA

I'm running 4300-4440 depending on which boat I'm in, can do that all day long without any problems.  \./8

 I can't believe I forgot to mention oil. Thanks for reminding us, Tom. Synthetics supposed to run fine at about 50 degrees higher temperatures. I too use amsoil, only slightly different grade:

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/sae-10w-30-signature-series-100-percent-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=ATMQT-EA

Offline mokamo

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2018, 12:08:23 AM »
In stock form, that is correct, but Mokai would never admit there were any limitations so bringing that up with them is a good way to get on their list of phone numbers not to answer.  :D

Oil temp at 275f is WAY too hot, the engine's life meter is running double time when temps get up there.  :-O

With regards to my upgrades that is not true, setting up an ES-kape with my plenum enlargement, water cooled muffler and hood vent, making a true cold air intake for the carb to breath separate from the flywheel, and running no pull starter installed, I have zero overheating issues and my RPM stays pretty consistent all day if not the same... And I am running a milled high compression EX17 head too. I don't have an oil temp gauge on this engine, but I have the same high compression engine setup in my 2011 and the oil temps rarely go over 235f. That is full throttle for 10 miles non stop during the summer, heat is not an issue with the right upgrades.
 ;)

An excellent performance result Tom. 10 miles full throttle non stop during the summer and not overheating is music to my ears.

Offline riverman

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2018, 01:25:18 PM »
My opinion don't waste your time with that servo business, get Toms  direct cable steering, it works great and very reliable. Definitely worth the money.     

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2018, 02:21:57 PM »
Did 32 miles today, full throttle. Direct control is the only way to go, I doubt any stock ES-kape could make the trip I did today without something failing. RPM stayed around 4250 the whole trip, ran like a top. Lots of video coming soon so stay tuned.  \./8
Tom

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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: directional control rod (from servo)
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2018, 02:22:53 PM »
My opinion don't waste your time with that servo business, get Toms  direct cable steering, it works great and very reliable. Definitely worth the money.   

Thanks for the feedback, glad you're enjoying it!  :)
Tom

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