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Offline Painlesstom

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Pump Rebuild Design - Grease Lube w/ Grease Fitting
« on: August 10, 2016, 06:50:35 PM »
One of my first goals with these boats was to make the jet pump bullet proof and maintenance free. The factory design of two sealed bearings left much to be desired. My oil lube conversion has worked out well for years, but I have see a couple that didn't work out from different seal configurations that had worked during testing but failed long term. A couple turned out I had damaged during assembly and ended up leaking. (If any of you notice oil around the impeller I stand by my warranty, and will fix at no charge) All those bugs have been worked out now, so there are no current concerns, but I have been tossing the idea around of how to make the pump user serviceable to some extent; have also had many people over the years ask about how often to change/ check the oil, which could lead to loose screws and lost pump cones if they don't put it together again right. So I came up with this idea. Grease.... The housing can be full of waterproof marine grease that can be "topped off" by a grease fitting installed in the rear cone. The front seals are oriented so that they keep water out, but will allow grease to escape during the fill process. So now, every oil change you do on the engine, you can give your pump a few shots of grease and know it's lubed. Any excess grease that gets pushed out will get washed away during use. I've done this on my 2003 and it's working great, can't imagine anything that could go wrong with this configuration.

UPDATE:  The grease method I liked personally, but there were those who didn't like having to add grease frequently, and by design the grease had to be able to push past the front seals or you wouldn't be able to pump it in without blowing the seals out. I know some that felt the urge to pump grease into the pump before every trip out, enough so they saw it ooze out from behind the impeller. The resulting mess meant grease polluting the water which I felt the need to step back from. The bad castings that have been seen was really what gave me the idea of grease in the first place, since I'd seen some pumps leak the oil out on one's I hadn't caught. Grease alleviated that issue since you add fresh after every tank of gas. I check each pump now and fix. So I moved back to the oil lube for the maintenance free way it should be, and for environmental responsibility reasons.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 07:23:59 AM by Painlesstom »
Tom

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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: New Idea for Pump Lube and Maintenace
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2016, 07:14:40 PM »
This is looking more and more like the way to go. With all the housings I've seen with casting issues that resulted in leaking holes, oil just makes a mess and then comes problems. With grease, it doesn't matter... Any water that gets in the housing just gets pushed right back out the next time you give it a few shots of grease. And with all that grease packed into the housing, it's unlikely water would be able to push it's way in there anyhow. And the best part is you guys can lube it anytime you want! How cool is that?  \./8

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld54T4GgqoY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld54T4GgqoY</a>
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Offline Rottweilerman

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Re: New Idea for Pump Lube and Maintenace
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2016, 09:42:08 PM »
Hey Tom,  I'm assuming this is the new fix for any new pumps sent to you for repair ???.      Is this something that should be considered if we had your oil filled repair done?   Dose  this fix just consist of inserting a zerk fitting into the pump?

John 

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: New Idea for Pump Lube and Maintenace
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2016, 11:16:42 PM »
Hey John, This is what I'm doing with pumps from now on. The oil is fine as long as there isn't an signs of leaking. Nobody has had a problem with that as far as I've heard, my ES-kape pump continues to leak from somewhere in the housing that I haven't been able to determine and I know it's going to happen to somebody else too eventually. With all the porosity I've seen in some of the castings, I just can't justify the use of oil and the potential problems that would cause for myself and the owner. So if you don't see any signs of leaks, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. I've been tossing this idea around for a couple years now, but didn't follow through until recently. It's the perfect setup for these pumps, gives the owner the ability to maintain it themselves along with the peace of mind it provides.

This new design requires a different seal configuration, and the zerk fitting. Can't just pump grease into it as-is, the seals would be forced out and get pressed into the back of the impeller. Not a big deal to convert it over though.
Tom

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Offline Rottweilerman

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Re: New Idea for Pump Lube and Maintenace
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2016, 01:14:59 AM »
Thanks for the fast reply,    In the event the pump starts leaking,  would there be an oil residue on the chute or possibly would the water flow remove any traces ???.     Is it the seals that would leak or a faulty casting as you have mentioned?    If a seal starts to leak, would I be able to see the leaking on the bench when I spin the propeller?    Just want to make sure of what I'm looking for ::), "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" ;D

Just in case you don't remember, you did the oil repair on my pump last year.

Thanks, John

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: New Idea for Pump Lube and Maintenace
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 07:34:41 AM »
If there was a problem with yours, it would have shown itself by now. I wouldn't be concerned. ;)
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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: New Idea for Pump Lube and Maintenace
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 11:14:06 PM »
Wanted to demonstrate how easy the pump will spin after I relieve the bearings of the pre-load that the factory design incorporated. The stiffness felt in a stock pump is from the excessive press fit causing the bearings to tighten, the front seal offers little tension and part of the reason for all the leaks. Video explains more.  \./8

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Ua8hmflR8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Ua8hmflR8</a>
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Offline slowtrot

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Re: Latest Pump Rebuild Design - Grease Lube w/ Grease Fitting
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2016, 08:55:08 AM »
Tom   That is one slick fix.  Years ago when I was in the maintenance end of an armor unit we had some road wheel hub oil bath systems.  They worked great until the seals failed.  When that happened the failure was pretty impressive.  We ended up replacing them with grease and little pop off fittings and the crews could pump grease all day and the spring loaded pop off prevented seal blow out.  It looks like your seal is faced to prevent that and the seal functions as the pop off.   That looks like a very good design and should prevent bearing failure from a lube problem. 

Alas all bearings finally fail but it can be almost generations of use before that happens.  I have seen greased bearings last for over 25 years of almost continuous use even in very high temp environments.   But a touch of dirt, too much tightening, and no lube and they will die in minutes.

My first rule of grease was to  keep the grease gun clean.  When you put grease in a grease gun it must be clean.  And before you lube a zerk, wipe the zerk clean and wipe the grease gun.  That simple rule enforced with crazy threats saved lots of bearing in factories.  You would be amazed at how many open 5 gal grease buckets still are in use to paddle in grease to grease guns.   Just a reminder to my friends that have not been down that road. 

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Latest Pump Rebuild Design - Grease Lube w/ Grease Fitting
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 09:16:09 AM »
Exactly! I'm glad you saw precisely what I am doing, you summed it up perfectly. Thanks for the post, I appreciate the feedback.  :)
Tom

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Offline mokamo

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Re: Latest Pump Rebuild Design - Grease Lube w/ Grease Fitting
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2018, 08:57:25 PM »
Hey Tom,

This is the topic that you made it clear pumps sent to you will be upgraded using your grease design with zerk.

Why did you rebuild mine using the old Oil Lube design Tom? I did not see any topic here that tells me you prefer the oil design than grease design. Maybe when i convert to Subaru, we can change it to grease design. Ill install all these on weekend.





« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 09:06:49 PM by mokamo »

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Latest Pump Rebuild Design - Grease Lube w/ Grease Fitting
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2018, 09:31:22 PM »
Sorry for the confusion. I've been so busy and forgot all about posting about that. Both methods work, oil being the maintenance free version that was more appealing to many. The grease method I liked personally, but there were those who didn't like having to add grease frequently, and by design the grease had to be able to push past the front seals or you wouldn't be able to pump it in without blowing the seals out. I know some that felt the urge to pump grease into the pump before every trip out, enough so they saw it ooze out from behind the impeller. The resulting mess meant grease polluting the water which I felt the need to step back from. The bad castings that have been seen was really what gave me the idea of grease in the first place, since I'd seen some pumps leak the oil out on one's I hadn't caught. Grease alleviated that issue since you add fresh after every tank of gas. I check each pump now and fix. So I moved back to the oil lube for the maintenance free way it should be, and for environmental responsibility reasons.

For those who have the grease setup and like it, no worries, just follow the prescribed 10 pumps of grease after every tank of fuel. If anyone wants to go back to oil, that's fine too, just send it to me.  \./8
Tom

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Offline mokamo

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Re: Latest Pump Rebuild Design - Grease Lube w/ Grease Fitting
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 06:50:16 AM »
Ill stay with oil Tom until they come up with a JP grease that is environment friendly ;)


Offline Superc200

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Re: Latest Pump Rebuild Design - Grease Lube w/ Grease Fitting
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2018, 02:54:14 PM »
Tom, will the grease version still be available upon request? Iíll be sending you a pump this fall and would prefer it be done the same way you did my last one with the grease fitting.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Latest Pump Rebuild Design - Grease Lube w/ Grease Fitting
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2018, 03:00:19 PM »
Sure, just let me know that when you send it.  \./8
Tom

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Offline Superc200

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Re: Pump Rebuild Design - Grease Lube w/ Grease Fitting
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 02:45:45 PM »
Awesome! I appreciate it, I certainly like being able to add grease and hear the water getting forced out of the pump!