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Author Topic: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits  (Read 23672 times)

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Offline Painlesstom

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Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« on: January 20, 2016, 11:06:42 AM »
As many of you many have read, I am in the process of developing a direct control steering and throttle cable conversion for the Es-Kape. I plan for it to be quick release so disassembly of hull would remain an option. This would transform the boat into something much more comfortable to use that would be considered truly reliable, no more worries about servos failing. Once I've finalized the new system I will be making it available, and would like to hear how many of you would be interested in getting the kit. I started a poll so you could provide your answer without advertising your identity to Mokai (I can't even tell who answers), should they be trolling the forum. Or, reply below if you like. ;)
Tom

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Offline gregjohnson1024

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 12:26:38 PM »
What reliability data is there that points to a problem? 

On a more general note, I find your pervasive attitude of superiority and dismissiveness towards the manufacturer to be quite marked, and particularly strange given the religious affiliation espoused in a Christmas email.  Charity, forebearance, and humility, would be characters I'd expected to be manifest.

Having a business that improves another product is great - it doesn't require this tone to be a success.

Offline SgtBadBob

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 02:15:01 PM »
I have not even put mine in the water yet and I don't like the response speed. I have noticed that the parts on my November 2015 Eskape made by Mokai are high quality but they rely on subcontractors that can have low quality products. [case in point thanks for rebuilding my water pump Tom. I can see and tell the difference immediately when taking it out of the box from you!!!]
And what servo is ever not capable of fault? They are electric and they will go bad.  The one for steering is not waterproof nor was it intended to be used in a marine environment. I check with the manufacture of the servo to confirm this. :P
Boeing over head crane operator [It has its ups and downs].
2015 Camo Eskape, Kx-21. ACR lightened con rod, Ceramic bearings in motor, Water cooled engine base, Port matched intake, Mini Tack, Electronic rpm limiter. Dragon Fly GPS sounder.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 02:53:27 PM »
What reliability data is there that points to a problem? 

On a more general note, I find your pervasive attitude of superiority and dismissiveness towards the manufacturer to be quite marked, and particularly strange given the religious affiliation espoused in a Christmas email.  Charity, forebearance, and humility, would be characters I'd expected to be manifest.

Having a business that improves another product is great - it doesn't require this tone to be a success.

I can understand your point of view just coming on the scene not knowing anything about this, but there is an extensive history of Mokai's dislike for me and what I do. They've burned bridges with many people over their customer service, it's nothing new and it's no secret.

 I am a Christian, saved by the grace of God, but that does not make me perfect in any way shape or form... I'm sure I could handle situations much better, I'm a work in progress, but what I'm best at is making these boats work the way they should. Changing up a bad design to something that actually works is all I want to do, so people can enjoy their boat as much as I do mine. What points to a problem? Other than the people that have already had problems, myself included, what more do you need? Mokai used servos from a hobby grade source, in an application they were never intended for. I have extensive experience with servos being seriously deep in the R/C aircraft world, servos fail. It's one thing to lose an R/C airplane, it's another thing to put your well being on the line to a hobby grade servo used to control the throttle in your boat. Besides all that, the function is mediocre at best, the refinement of the joystick setup is suitable for a novelty toy, not a manned vehicle, using off the shelf generic parts from Servocity.com. 

When you get an Es-Kape, and realize it's not what you thought it was, I will be glad to help you make it work properly too. Hard to compare apples to oranges until you have eaten them both. Sorry you've view my posts the way you have, I will try to portray a better attitude in the future.  \./8
 ;)
Tom

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Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2016, 02:58:25 PM »
I have not even put mine in the water yet and I don't like the response speed. I have noticed that the parts on my November 2015 Eskape made by Mokai are high quality but they rely on subcontractors that can have low quality products. [case in point thanks for rebuilding my water pump Tom. I can see and tell the difference immediately when taking it out of the box from you!!!]
And what servo is ever not capable of fault? They are electric and they will go bad.  The one for steering is not waterproof nor was it intended to be used in a marine environment. I check with the manufacture of the servo to confirm this. :P

Thanks Bob, I'm glad you like what you've seen of my work. Just want to correct the subcontractor statement you made regarding the pump, Mokai builds their pump themselves and the quality of the parts is actually very good. The problem lies in the design, not the quality. Many of the problems that I fix on these boats is not addressing poor quality, only a much need design change. Even quality parts will fail if used incorrectly.
 ;)
Tom

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Offline revtoyota

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 03:56:42 PM »
I have to say, I would send my pumps to and get parts from Tom  rather then mokai any time I have delt with mokai I have the urge to shoot the mokai. There's  No way I would trust the es-kape's electronics to do my annual 800 mile run down the Yukon river. That's just asking for a problem to rear its head and in that river you don't get second chances. Any info I get from tom I know he at least spent the time to do the research and development to make a good product far superior.

Offline Fishlover

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 06:44:25 PM »
My two cents worth..

Gregjohnson1024, candor is a virtue. ;)
Tom, applauding your restraint. \./8

Letís face it, we all continue to grow and the older we get, the more we get our ********* together, while our bodies are falling apart. ???

What needs to be kept in mind, I think, is that the Mokai Company is a very small company, where the 3 principal players (as far as I know) are all doing multiple jobs.
They are spread VERY thin.
If you lose sight of this in your interactions with them, you will sour up for the wrong reasons.

The ES-Kape is a very innovative design that had on its outset a definitive set of goals to make a boat that more people can use because it comes apart, fits into their cars and limited storage spaces.
I consider it ďPhase 1Ē of a product release plan over time.
Using it on any inland water way (short of rapids) poses no special reliability requirements, as long as certain limits are not exceeded. After all, it floats and it can be paddled back to where you started if the engine fails, given some constraints.
The devil is in those constraints for those who donít do their home work.
What Mokai probably should have done (famous hindsight) is to hand out a disclaimer of sorts that lists such constraints to cover the most obvious potential pitfalls with safety in mind. But they didnít.
So, here we are.

I believe, if a more positive attitude can be projected, all around, the potential of making better long term progress is more so given, rather than the other way around by pointing fingers.

Iím still a Newbie myself. Yes, I found out stuff I had not thought about. Yes, thankfully, there are solutions out there. No, I have not yet found any insurmountable restrictions to my own plans of taking this boat out on the ocean (talk about fringe areas). And, yes, Mokai was NOT saying to me that they thought it was a good idea.

Final word:
Tom, this is after all your website and forum.
All of us users can be thankful that you implemented it as it makes us all better at what we do with our boats. We understand also that you are making a business here and as long as the 2-way open exchange of thoughts and ideas can continue, all will be better off for it!
Thanks.

Offline Hillbilly

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2016, 10:39:17 AM »
Welcome, Greg

I think you will find this forum open to opinions of every sort.  All would have to agree that there would be no Mokai fun and adventure without the ingenious and unique boat produced by the good people at Mokai.  On the other hand, those of us with many years of experience using these boats will applaud Tom's genius along with the quality of his products and the integrity which he brings to everything he does. We couldn't do what we do without his contributions to the hobby and without the indispensable resource of the website that he created and forum that he maintains.
 
Badbob and Revtoyota are two of the best new contributors of skill and new ideas here on the forum.  You will find here ideas and questions from other great characters all over the world. I look forward to learning from you as I have from so many here.

And Tom . . . thanks again

Offline Rottweilerman

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2016, 11:12:12 AM »
My two cents worth..

Gregjohnson1024, candor is a virtue. ;)
Tom, applauding your restraint. \./8

Letís face it, we all continue to grow and the older we get, the more we get our ********* together, while our bodies are falling apart. ???

What needs to be kept in mind, I think, is that the Mokai Company is a very small company, where the 3 principal players (as far as I know) are all doing multiple jobs.
They are spread VERY thin.
If you lose sight of this in your interactions with them, you will sour up for the wrong reasons.

The ES-Kape is a very innovative design that had on its outset a definitive set of goals to make a boat that more people can use because it comes apart, fits into their cars and limited storage spaces.
I consider it ďPhase 1Ē of a product release plan over time.
Using it on any inland water way (short of rapids) poses no special reliability requirements, as long as certain limits are not exceeded. After all, it floats and it can be paddled back to where you started if the engine fails, given some constraints.
The devil is in those constraints for those who donít do their home work.
What Mokai probably should have done (famous hindsight) is to hand out a disclaimer of sorts that lists such constraints to cover the most obvious potential pitfalls with safety in mind. But they didnít.
So, here we are.

I believe, if a more positive attitude can be projected, all around, the potential of making better long term progress is more so given, rather than the other way around by pointing fingers.

Iím still a Newbie myself. Yes, I found out stuff I had not thought about. Yes, thankfully, there are solutions out there. No, I have not yet found any insurmountable restrictions to my own plans of taking this boat out on the ocean (talk about fringe areas). And, yes, Mokai was NOT saying to me that they thought it was a good idea.

Final word:
Tom, this is after all your website and forum.
All of us users can be thankful that you implemented it as it makes us all better at what we do with our boats. We understand also that you are making a business here and as long as the 2-way open exchange of thoughts and ideas can continue, all will be better off for it!
Thanks.
Very well said, nothing more needed to be added! :)

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 02:36:21 PM »
Great posts, guys, thanks for the support.  ;)
Tom

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Offline riverman

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2016, 12:18:47 PM »
 To understand the engineering principles of the mokai one must attempt to get in the minds of the engineers. I'm sure anything Tom posts are merely an expression of his thoughts, frustrations and ideas; Its called critical thinking.  What Tom does helps the mokai company not hurts it, they as well as all the mokai owners should be grateful  someone like tom is out there.  No business ever, spends as much countless hours trying to help and advise others for little to  zero monetary gain as Tom.  If you what to talk charity, forbearance and humility I think you are talking about the wrong man!     

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2016, 07:32:48 PM »
I've made quite a bit of progress on this conversion, and boy I am super excited to try it out! Still have some parts coming for the throttle handle assembly, but the steering setup is set in stone and both ends are quick release so the hull can be separated. Hull pass through tunnel with seal has been finished. Throttle linkage and quick release on engine has been finished. Most everything is designed with finished pieces ready to test. Don't want to share pictures until I have a completed product, but I can promise you that this is going to be a huge step toward making this boat a viable and reliable craft that everyone can enjoy. Stay tuned!!! 

 :)>:D :)
Tom

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Offline revtoyota

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2016, 07:48:15 PM »
Good deal!!!  I know the electronics side of the es-kape is what stopped me from upgrading to it.

Offline SgtBadBob

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2016, 08:14:20 PM »
Hope I can still use one firewall plug for tack, power, start, ignition, depth sounder maybe even lights?  Just saying we could still use one plug location if available?
Boeing over head crane operator [It has its ups and downs].
2015 Camo Eskape, Kx-21. ACR lightened con rod, Ceramic bearings in motor, Water cooled engine base, Port matched intake, Mini Tack, Electronic rpm limiter. Dragon Fly GPS sounder.

Offline Painlesstom

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Re: Throttle and Steering Direct Control Conversion Kits
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2016, 09:08:08 PM »
The control box will still be used, the joystick just needs to be removed and the hole covered. One hull plug is already for ignition, power, start.  You can re-purpose the second servo plug to whatever you like, it would serve no more use. Then the control box can be mounted fore or aft of the new steering stick. I plan to rewire mine so when the power switch it on all it does is break the ground to the coil, in other words you could leave the switch on without killing the battery. I'll share those details too when I get there. ;)
Tom

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